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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Car Won't Start When Hot

Track Day road course HPDE

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13 replies to this topic

#1 jeffreythorton

jeffreythorton

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  • Current Vehicle:2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302
  • Boss 302's Year:2012

Posted 07 July 2017 - 05:11 PM

Any track day guys having trouble starting their car when hot?  I'm posting here because I track the car.... However, this happens even under normal driving.

 

Specifically:  Once the car is hot, if I turn it off, the starter will not turn.  I can hear the relays clicking when I turn the key to start, and when pushing the clutch safety switch on and off.  Because I can hear the relays cycling, I'm assuming power is getting to the starter.  The remedy is to let the car sit... I pop the hood, and in about 15-20 minutes the car fires right up.

 

At this point, I'm assuming the starter solenoid or the starter itself is getting heat-soaked and jammed.  Any one else have this problem?  Solutions?  Any other ideas? 

 

Thanks!


2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 in Kona Blue

 

Engine: Stock. TracKey Active. Dyno'd 398hp/341lb-ft.

Drivetrain:  Spec 2+ clutch, Spec billet flywheel, Ford Racing shifter/bracket, Steeda flexible clutch line

Suspension:  Ford Racing Boss springs, Ford Racing LCA & relocation brackets, Whiteline panhard bar, Steeda camber plates

Exterior:  Ford Racing World Challenge splitter, 3dCarbon GT500 spoiler

Track configuration:  Apex EC-7 race wheels, Toyo R888's in 275/40/18, Hawk DTC-60's front and rear.

 

Boss At VIR

 

 

 







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#2 Ginger

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:04 PM

sounds like a bad starter to me.

Replace with new not rebuilt or remanufactured. Napa new starter comes with lifetime warranty. that's if you plan to keep the car for many years. I have put 3 starters in my f250 super duty at zero cost.


  • LSECO and Rich B. like this

#3 Rich B.

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 05:12 PM

That happened to my road runner once and it also was starter. But maybe starter relay as lawnmower would do the same thing but when contacts were jumpered on relay block, starter would work fine but that was cold start also. Starters can get heat soaked and they also make covers to insulate them, maybe our cars have them (or supposed to), I can't say exactly where starter is as yet even (on which side) lol. Attached File  image.jpeg   24.22KB   0 downloads Wonder if the old Model T starter wrench would work on Bosses? Attached File  image.jpeg   62.2KB   0 downloads

Edited by Rich B., 09 July 2017 - 05:37 PM.


#4 LSECO

LSECO

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 09:20 PM

Rich, my '19 "Model T" is the first year for electric start. Hopefully I'll learn to crank start it.

(cuz I don't have that wrench yet).

(I think)

Attached Files


  • Rich B. likes this
<p><p> 2012 LAGUNA SECA Black/Race Red: The FIRST year of the RETURN of the Boss 302, (Gen.II) Road-Race ready.
L O - J A C K theft recovery system.
Pedestal wing with GT-500 Gurney flap,modified fr. splitter.Halon fire extinguisher.Cervini ram air hood w/heat extractors. Recaro racing seats, race red rear seat delete brace bar,4pt.race red seatbelts and harness bar,r.r. front splitter adj.rods,r.r.coil covers and r.r.shock tower brace.LS race gauge pack.FRPP race brake cooling ducts, Motul 600 race brake fluid, FRPP trans cooling scoop, AEM intake tube kit, oil catch can-pass side only, FRPP TRACKEY,SilverHorse gas filler lid.MMD satin black tail light surrounds,MMD Carbon fiber wrapped hood gas struts, projector headlights w/sequential turn signals and emergencies,rear brake/emergencies sequencers.CSI protective smoke head light covers-daytime use only, satin black LS faux gas cap.Honeycomb ELEANOR grill w/hidden LED HALO fogs,honeycomb front lower grill,limo tint on rear glass ONLY,LED interior, license plate, and trunk lighting, satin silver billet e-brake handle, mirror adj.knob ,shifter ball,rear seatbelt mounting covers.Eibach Sportline road racing lowering springs(installed by Eibach), FRPP 1pc. aluminium drive shaft,Bama "tunes for life", Kooks long tube headers,Kooks cat delete offroad X-pipe,resonator delete over axle pipes,On-3-Go muffler deletes.
Custom smoke/nickel chrome, LIGHTWEIGHT 19X10 wheels-295×30×19 fronts-295x30x19 rears w/Hoosier R6 tyres for spirited driving, Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires on stock RED rims for inclement monsoon weather, Carbotech brake pads, race red Brembo calipers,FRPP GT500 rear rotors conversion, MGW Race spec.III shifter,Whiteline trans mount bushing, J&M adjustable panhard bar.Dual clutch transmission fluids,

(just a SMIDGEON of mods compared to most of "MY BOSSBROS") All LS take-off parts are packaged up..... There is no such thing as a "REGULAR" Boss !!   :rockon:   


                                 

#5 Rich B.

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 03:53 AM

Rodger that on the starter wrench LSECO lol. Think somebody told me that those were invented as couldn't get to starter bolts. Know they work great but may need metric version for our cars. Didn't realize either hardware is all metric (G post), makes sense as Ford is worldwide these days. I can't tell as my wrench set works for both.

Sometimes I forget things or wrong from inception, can't imagine what's forgotten. Like forgot more than some know? Just checked for dimentia, nope not yet but take something for temper these days:)

This just flashed by: Back to the early 70's the metric system was going to be the U.S. standard and all PU trucks were to have tandem wheels. Supposed to be underrated with too heavy a load...... Neither ever occurred.

Edited by Rich B., 10 July 2017 - 04:02 AM.


#6 jeffreythorton

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 12:35 PM

Haha... o.k., thanks guys. I may spring for the Ford Racing starter. Hopefully it's a high quality piece that will last a long while... at any rate, my Boss' tracking career is over... I'm too addicted! Track days are starting to take their toll with stuff like this (also just chased down and fixed a fuel vapor line that was burned through by my exhaust, causing the "Check Fuel Filler Inlet" light). Just bought a beater '05 that I will build into a Spec Iron race car...
  • TymeSlayer and Ginger like this

2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 in Kona Blue

 

Engine: Stock. TracKey Active. Dyno'd 398hp/341lb-ft.

Drivetrain:  Spec 2+ clutch, Spec billet flywheel, Ford Racing shifter/bracket, Steeda flexible clutch line

Suspension:  Ford Racing Boss springs, Ford Racing LCA & relocation brackets, Whiteline panhard bar, Steeda camber plates

Exterior:  Ford Racing World Challenge splitter, 3dCarbon GT500 spoiler

Track configuration:  Apex EC-7 race wheels, Toyo R888's in 275/40/18, Hawk DTC-60's front and rear.

 

Boss At VIR

 

 

 


#7 Rich B.

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 04:20 AM

Have read before about the melted vapor line and the codes. Same thing happened to TymeSlayer after he installed his new exhaust pipes. Guess an insulated sleeve over the line is the solution. Surprised nothing further anywheres about melted rocker and wheel molding trim from side pipe heat.

Racing must be quite costly without a sponsor(s). Many must do it just because they're able to. Not sure if prize money is available to any winners on many of the events, would help recoup expenses. Insurance, can it be had for tracked cars? Bet the track is way safer than driving down the road in regular traffic.

Edited by Rich B., 16 July 2017 - 04:37 AM.

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#8 TymeSlayer

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 07:31 AM

Providing you break nothing on your car that would cost for replacement, consumables such as tires, brakes and all the fluids eat up a wallet quite quickly. Throw in a couple hundred dollars to get track day insurance. I know many that forego this completely. I didn't bother for Autox this year but usually do for a full day of road course mayhem. Nope, this is not a cheap hobby. 

 

I haven't experienced this issue with a hot car not starting while tracking the car. Perhaps the grille helps cool things off under the hood but after every session, I make sure I lift the hood and allow the engine bay to cool down. Try the new started as Ginger has suggested and see if that helps. 


  • Ginger, Rich B. and Dimo like this

FRPP 84.5MM Throttle Body / 302S Bumpsteer Kit / FR500S Front Wheel Hub and Rear Wheel Studs / Front Brake Cooling Ducts / LS Dash Gauges / LS Pedestal Spoiler / Recaro Seats/ Stainless Steel Clutch Line / T-Springs / Torsen Differential / TracKey -  BFR Aluminum Rear Brake Caliper Bracket / Fire Extinguisher Mount / Front Tow Hook Kit - BMR A-Arms / Front Drive Shaft Safety Loop / K-Member / Lower Control Arms / Radiator Support / Upper Control Arms / Watts Link - ForgeStar CF5V Matte Black – Mickey Thompson Street Comps - Hawk High Performance Ceramic Pads  - DBA Slotted Rotors - Goodridge Stainless Steel Brake Lines - Kooks Shorty’s Headers / Boss 302 Side Pipes – Borla ATAKs Axle Backs / 2-3/4” Over Axle – MRT H-Pipes -QTP Electric Cutouts - Driveshaft Shop One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft - Airaid Parnelli Jones Cold Air Intake - CoolTech Boss 302 Oil Cooler with T-Stat / 6PT Harness Belts and Clips - Corbeau Harness Bar - Peterson Air-Oil Separator - Moroso Overflow Tank - SPEC Stage 2+ Clutch Kit / Lightweight Steel Flywheel - MGW Race Spec Shifter - Koni Yellow Sports - Maximum Motorsport Caster-Camber Plates  - Aggressor Airflow Engraved Front Splitter

 

Member: FRMC - MCA - NASA Rocky Mountain

 

Sweet Lorraine - Circa March 2015

 

 


#9 Ginger

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 06:15 AM

Jeff,

Have you replaced the starter yet or fixed the problem??

 

Just a thought...

Maybe you can install a starter blanket or heat shield of some sort.



#10 BallwinBoss

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 08:07 AM

I had the exact problem. New starter and everything has worked perfect since.

#11 bossy13

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 03:05 PM

Heat shield or blanket for the starter is a good idea if you track.

And I would say a must if you have installed headers...


  • TymeSlayer and LSECO like this

Original: 2013 Race Red with TracKey, Recaro Seats, Torsen Diff, and Owners Kit.

Performance Mods: JLT Oil Separator, MGW Shifter, FRPP 84.5 MM TB, Airaid PJ Carbon Fiber Intake, Kooks 1-7/8" Shorty Headers (ceramic coated), Kooks Gen-II Side Pipes, MRT H-pipe, Borla Over-Axle Pipes, GT500 Quad Mufflers (painted black) with Valence, QTEC302 Electric Side-pipe Cutouts,  FRPP SS Clutch Line, FRPP Brake Cooling Kit, GT500 13.8" Rear Brake Upgrade, Vorshlag SS Brake Lines, AE 4" Aluminum DS with BMR safety loop, Shelby transmission scoop.

Suspension Mods: Steeda Boss Lowering Springs, Steeda HD Strut Mounts, Koni Yellow Dampers, Whiteline Panhard Bar with Brace, Whiteline LCAs with Relo Brackets.

Appearance Mods: Sound Tube Delete, Race Red Bumper Plugs, CDC Illuminated 'Boss 302' Sill Plates, RedLine Hood Struts, Blacked-out Hood Vents, MRT Aluminum Rear Louvers, SHR Flush Quarter Louvers (matte black), SHR Custom Fuel Door (matte black with RR '302' lettering), Moroso Coolant Reservoir. Moroso Battery & Brake Fluid Covers, CJPony Boss302 Rally Shift Knob.

Track & Safety Mods: Forgestar CF5 19x10" wheels (square configuration), Hoosier R6 295/35-19 R-compound tires, SRP Racing Pedals, LS Rear Seat Delete and Cross Brace (race red), CoolTech Roll Bar (race red) and Crow Harnesses (with Boss 302 emblem).

Planned Mods: Whiteline UCA, CoolTech Tow Hooks, Peterson Breather Can, McCloud RST Clutch, Maybe a set of Sweet BSS Wheels, 500+ BHP (one way or another).


#12 jeffreythorton

jeffreythorton

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Posted Yesterday, 09:27 PM

Sorry... I should have updated everyone, as i did indeed fix my starting problem..

I ordered the Ford Racing hi-torque mini starter, which was about $250. When it showed up, I put the car on jackstands and started pulling the "bad" starter....

....and found a cable to the solenoid just very slightly loose. There are two cables that bolt to the starter, a larger one and a smaller one. This was the smaller one...

I should have done something as basic as checking the connection of the cables. My guess is that the cable was just loose enough to somehow break the connection when hot. Oh well... I replaced the starter anyway, the new one is indeed smaller and now I have a working spare...
  • TymeSlayer, Ginger and Rich B. like this

2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 in Kona Blue

 

Engine: Stock. TracKey Active. Dyno'd 398hp/341lb-ft.

Drivetrain:  Spec 2+ clutch, Spec billet flywheel, Ford Racing shifter/bracket, Steeda flexible clutch line

Suspension:  Ford Racing Boss springs, Ford Racing LCA & relocation brackets, Whiteline panhard bar, Steeda camber plates

Exterior:  Ford Racing World Challenge splitter, 3dCarbon GT500 spoiler

Track configuration:  Apex EC-7 race wheels, Toyo R888's in 275/40/18, Hawk DTC-60's front and rear.

 

Boss At VIR

 

 

 


#13 Rich B.

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Posted Today, 05:38 AM

Nice find, never know. Possibly expansion was the problem, making a loose connection when hot. The new starter sounds though it might be an upgrade, save original or sell down the road?

Edited by Rich B., Today, 05:39 AM.


#14 TymeSlayer

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Posted Today, 08:03 AM

jefferythorton - was it FRPP part number M-11000-C50 and did you weight the original starter? 


FRPP 84.5MM Throttle Body / 302S Bumpsteer Kit / FR500S Front Wheel Hub and Rear Wheel Studs / Front Brake Cooling Ducts / LS Dash Gauges / LS Pedestal Spoiler / Recaro Seats/ Stainless Steel Clutch Line / T-Springs / Torsen Differential / TracKey -  BFR Aluminum Rear Brake Caliper Bracket / Fire Extinguisher Mount / Front Tow Hook Kit - BMR A-Arms / Front Drive Shaft Safety Loop / K-Member / Lower Control Arms / Radiator Support / Upper Control Arms / Watts Link - ForgeStar CF5V Matte Black – Mickey Thompson Street Comps - Hawk High Performance Ceramic Pads  - DBA Slotted Rotors - Goodridge Stainless Steel Brake Lines - Kooks Shorty’s Headers / Boss 302 Side Pipes – Borla ATAKs Axle Backs / 2-3/4” Over Axle – MRT H-Pipes -QTP Electric Cutouts - Driveshaft Shop One Piece Aluminum Driveshaft - Airaid Parnelli Jones Cold Air Intake - CoolTech Boss 302 Oil Cooler with T-Stat / 6PT Harness Belts and Clips - Corbeau Harness Bar - Peterson Air-Oil Separator - Moroso Overflow Tank - SPEC Stage 2+ Clutch Kit / Lightweight Steel Flywheel - MGW Race Spec Shifter - Koni Yellow Sports - Maximum Motorsport Caster-Camber Plates  - Aggressor Airflow Engraved Front Splitter

 

Member: FRMC - MCA - NASA Rocky Mountain

 

Sweet Lorraine - Circa March 2015

 

 










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